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Learning Without Scars

Learning Without Scars

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    Learning Without Scars
    S2 E28•June 22, 2022•55 min

    Steve Clegg introduces a new subject in our blogs covering data analytics for a dealership from customer transactions to forecasting and everything relating to the business.

    Send us Fan Mail (https://www.buzzsprout.com/1721145/fan_mail/new) This discussion starts with a background for Steve from the Airforce Academy and the University of Chicago and moves to discussing his early career before we get down to business with the business of dealerships. I found our conversation exciting and I hope you will as well. Visit us at LearningWithoutScars.org (https://www.LearningWithoutScars.org) for more training solutions for Equipment Dealerships - Construction, Mining, Agriculture, Cranes, Trucks and Trailers. We provide comprehensive online learning programs for employees starting with an individualized skills assessment to a personalized employee development program designed for their skill level.

    Transcript

    0:19

    Aloha, and welcome to another Candid Conversation. I'm really pleased today to be welcoming a guest by the name of Stephen Clay. Steve is one of the founding partners of Winsby, which is a very interesting and powerful tool to help dealerships in how they manage their businesses. Steve, good day. Welcome aboard.

    0:43

    Good afternoon, Ron.

    0:44

    Yes, I have to say good day because I don't know where the heck I am most of the time. Maybe you could give us a little bit of your background and particularly focusing on your academic papers and presentations relative to economics, interest rates, etc.

    1:05

    Originally, I had gone and taken, I went to Irish Chicago. And I had taken the summer and took a job in Eastern Europe. The Western work crew had walked off, and I found myself as the assistant manager of a huge facility. It was like going back into the 1870s or something like that. It was horse, and the roads were meant for carts, not cars. It was a great experience, but everybody had lots of U.S. dollars. in their pocket. So all transactions were translated into US dollars and the local currency was pretty much the official exchange rate was, I think at the time, maybe 17 or 18 Zawadi per dollar, but the black market was over 100. So there's a big market and people taking you know, official US dollars and converting them at the 17 rate and then pocketing the difference if you're in government. The corruption was pretty rampant. But what it gave me the, it gave me an understanding of the dollar overhang.

    2:19

    So in graduate school, I wrote a paper looking at the dollar overhang in fiat currency because with the Britain Woods Agreement, we had gone off gold. So there was no underlying value to the dollar other than anyone's desire to transact business with the United States. And in the past, when fiat currencies had existed before, and I think the worst example was a Portuguese discovered that the African world traded in beads and they could automate the making of beads. So they totally bankrupted Africa. And the only thing they had left to sell were slaves. So it's a It's a very kind of a strange feeling when you have a dollar that loses its foundation, then goes across. And the only value is in doing business with whoever the party is on the other side, assuming that you can buy goods at that value based on the exchange rate. So I wrote a paper looking at the interest rates, exchange rates, and local pricing and the implications of that.

    3:31

    Because I was buying when I was in Poland. I was buying bricks from Hungary. I was going into East Germany, buying shovels and doing all this other stuff and running into all this currency. But the only value that people would actually take is dollars. So the U.S. was shipping me like $50,000 to go figure out what I needed to buy, which actually went a long way. purchasing. So I wrote that paper and it turned out that a bunch of economists at Chicago had read it and I ended up taking a job at W.R. Grace and found myself there a couple of weeks and I got a call from, and they had hired me with the idea that somehow I had some deep understanding of all their problems of exchange rates and owning assets in foreign countries, which they had a lot of and they had no idea how to account for it. They didn't, it was pretty much arbitrary. There hadn't been any rules written on how to account for foreign assets.

    4:42

    Other than I put a dollar in, how many dollars am I getting back? It's very much like the equipment industry. It's like, I don't care about all those things. It's just, I got a dollar. How many dollars am I getting back? It was basically, I'm running with how much cash do I have in the bank at any one time? pretty oblivious to the balance sheet implications.

    5:04

    It's interesting that you bring it up like this is obviously before the euro and currency in Europe in those days, because I was in that part of the world as well. It was wild going cross borders. Your pockets were loaded with all kinds of coins of different denominations of different currencies. I remember having a 10 million lira. bill in my pocket. It was probably worth five bucks, but it didn't matter, you know? And yeah, relative value. And with the end of Bretton Woods, with the foundation of gold disappearing from currencies, then it really did become an arcane trading market, didn't it?

    5:49

    It did. It's very similar to when people would take the coins and put other metals into the coins or make them smaller or... You know, this has been going on for thousands of years. This is not a new phenomenon. But the underlying value is only to the extent that that coin or that dollar can hold to value for an exchange of goods and services, which gets complex when you're buying materials from one country, manufacturing in another and selling them in a third. So how do you account for it? And how do you make people understand what the risks are? Because usually, as I discovered as I kind of moved through corporate America, CFOs were one step beyond moronic when it came to understanding what the implications of this were. And the central banks at that time, it was all a... old boys club. They would talk to one another, they'd get their six families on the end so they could move their money in anticipation of a devaluation.

    7:02

    It was totally corrupt. And then with that, the investment banks were, and banks were party to it. So they were all managing this at the expense of the people that are trying to transact business and anybody else that was being paid in wages that varied from Just as we're facing now with this extremely inflationary environment, you got truckers that will go out of business as a result of not understanding the implications of printing money, which has no underlying value. And then having prices that the individual has to pay with contracts that have to be met at the old value, whether it's. exchange rate value or in the currency value, it's price, interest rates, exchange rates. And most people don't have a grasp of that because they live within a 20-mile sphere of wherever they do business.

    8:02

    And it's the finance, I think that's a compliment. But the people that are in the dealership level that are doing accountant, the accountants. They're basically bookkeepers making sure that things are reported properly. They haven't turned that into either a money-making enterprise or communicated well within the dealership as to what it is that makes the dealership run. And example, asset turnover is one of those things that can influence your gross margin very dramatically, which should then influence your price point. But hardly anybody thinks that way.

    8:45

    Yeah, I think it's a real and much. You brought up the call I got from Arthur Burns. I didn't know who he was when he called me and says he wants to have lunch with me at the Bull and Bear. And I had no idea what the Bull and Bear was other than it was at the Waldorf. And so I found myself going to lunch as a kid. Yeah, kind of a totally naive. not really understanding what this was all about, for a four-hour conversation with, at that time, were the presidents of the various Fed banks across the country, along with Arthur Burns and Paul Volcker.

    9:22

    Yeah, let me interrupt this for a second. Arthur Burns was the chairman of the Federal Reserve prior to Paul Volcker. And so this is in New York City. The Bulls and Bears is a real famous bar in the Waldorf Astoria. And the only... Weird comment I'll add to that. Frank Sinatra had a table he reserved, which was in the corner that was slightly elevated so he could look over the whole room. And whenever anybody he arrived, anybody in that table, they were kicked out. It was arrived. So you were how old at that time when you're meeting Burns and Volcker and the presidents of the Fed?

    9:56

    I think I was 25.

    9:58

    A real old seasoned veteran, right?

    10:02

    Knowing nothing, you know. But what was interesting was at that time, and Burns was very articulate about it, he said the Fed's role was just to make sure there was liquidity available for the overnight. Their role was to ensure that there was sufficient funds available for people to continue to transact business the next day.

    10:26

    So this is in the 70s. Yep. Okay, so that's before the dual mandate where the Fed Reserve... said we're responsible for inflation and unemployment.

    10:38

    Neither of those things are within the purview or control of the Fed. It's like, you know, you're responsible, Ron, for when the sun rises tomorrow morning. And if it rises too early, we're going to assassinate you.

    10:54

    Yeah, I agree. I agree. And now we're getting our... current Fed chairman is getting all kinds of luck because inflation is running away.

    11:04

    And you go, OK, does the Fed control the printing press? Unfortunately, the Fed has been buying the U.S. debt. I think the balance sheet, which used to be a couple hundred billion and people thought that was a lot to have on the balance sheet. I think it peaked out at nine trillion. Yeah. So they bought they've been buying the U.S. deficit. at an ever-increasing rate. And we might as well be Brazil or Germany prior to the Great Depression. I mean, we are a joke financially.

    11:37

    Yeah, it's really interesting that, you know, I don't want to sound too smart about anything, but everybody talks about China owning America's debt. Americans own America's debt. Japan is the largest owner of U.S. bonds, China's second largest, but they're around a trillion dollars. And our balance sheet, like you say, is around nine trillion. We carry most of it.

    12:00

    We carry most of it. The outstanding debt is some crazy number up in the 20 to 30 trillion. And the obligations that we've got go way, way beyond that. So this is like if you bring this back to the equipment industry. This is the environment you have to operate in where you're buying parts and machines from foreign countries that may or may not align themselves. They try to align themselves and keep their currency in line with the dollar to provide some stability. But if that stability becomes untenable, which it appears to definitely be fraying at this point, you'll have a disconnect and the supply lines will shut down. both at the local level, just as the truckers who have fixed-rate contracts have gone from $100 a day for diesel to $1,200 a day. It's untenable.

    13:04

    The Japanese yen, I think it was yesterday, is as close to a record low as it's ever been. So if you're buying product from Japan, and a lot of American suppliers buy from Japan, you've got an inordinate advantage. But that takes us back into pricing, price points, that this currency variation and many variables, it's really hard to understand from an equipment dealer perspective. If I'm buying in US dollars, I really don't want to pay any attention to that. But my competitors, if they're in Europe or in Asia, who are buying in different currencies, they're in a world of hurt.

    13:46

    They are. And also, if you're manufacturing here and our manufacturers, our currency are collapsing, then you're able to bring in, you destroy the pricing points within countries. So the used value of equipment, you'll have an inversion. So everybody that's holding on to any equipment becomes, you're looking at, in the past, retail is notorious for this. It goes to 10 cents on the dollar. It's just like, that's why you have dollar stores. You know, people get disconnected.

    14:21

    Exactly. It's exactly what Target's going through right now. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, I used to think that we would have three currencies that you should buy natural resources, manufacture, distribute in the same currency. So I was thinking, this is a long time ago, thinking that the world would be euros. US dollars, and in those days, Japanese yen, maybe today it's Chinese renminbi. And it would stay together. The pandemic blew that thing right out of the water, didn't it? Supply chains weren't that clear. They were all over the place.

    14:57

    They're all over in there in the balance. And the balance was the efficiency of the supply chains were allowing people to move goods around the world very cost effectively. So after working at WR Grace, I worked for Avis. And this gave me a so I found myself again, a young age funding and managing the fleets around the world. So we were buying cars in Germany and Italy, shipping them to Africa and wherever else in the world. We're getting paid in the local currency. We're putting assets. Once you went through the barrier of moving up a car into a country, you paid enormous tariffs. So you're not taking it out of that country. So the value of the car was only a value that you could potentially recapture on a resale in that local currency. And so you had this problem of the cars didn't last that long, especially back then, putting them into the rental fleet. People were extremely abusive of things that they didn't own.

    16:03

    And so you had to turn the cars every six months,12 months on the outside. So with that, you run into where you're sourcing from, where you're borrowing from to fund the fleet, how you're booking the facility and the cars that you have in country, and how are you collecting the money? Who's showing up? And are you able to convert that money into U.S. dollars and bring it back to buy another car?

    16:36

    And that example is a perfect... place to be looking at accountants or accounting or finance within a dealership. It's so damn complicated. We don't have that kind of person working at a dealership. And very few manufacturers have those kinds of folks working.

    16:54

    Well, they tend to be very narrow. It's really most people operate with a narrow purview of their money. So the next paper I wrote, which was looking at the implications of how was it accounted for and the accounting. you know, or the FASB came out with FASB 8, which was, this is how you're going to account for your foreign assets. And it was clear that they had no idea what the hell they were talking about.

    17:28

    FASB is Financial Accounting Standards Board?

    17:32

    Yes, they came out with this. But the application tend to be myopic because it was US driven, not somebody looking in from the outside and vice versa. So a lot of this was the reality was it doesn't matter how it was accounted for what really mattered. And as I told people, what matters is cash because you can show a lot of money on your bottom line and go bankrupt. Yeah.

    18:03

    That's a hard concept for a lot of people to understand. It

    18:07

    is. So look at all the money I'm making. It's all paper, because if you have to fund it with a working capital line because you took the wrong side of a transaction contract, you'll go bankrupt. Your credit lines will dry up. And that's what we're beginning to face today is you've got credit lines that are supporting supply chains that are being extended. And the working capital has been shrunk to the point that it's not likely the banks are going to be in a position to step up to resupply. and lengthy supply chain. So you're going to see a lot of dislocation coming forward.

    18:45

    Yeah. And in fact, I think we've seen it in the last three to five years, maybe a little longer, but your experience in Avis, the rental business, the arrival of the rental business in our industry, in the capital goods industry, has really thrown a lot of the old rules for whatever value they were out the window. And now with the price of equipment, it requires a dealership that is very large. So we're seeing all this consolidation. We have the dealers that are over a billion dollars, many of them. And we have contractors now that are so large that they don't have assets on a balance sheet anymore. They're using the dealer balance sheet. And now the dealers aren't big enough to support. the customers and the manufacturers and the dealers are together financing the contractors. It's really perverse.

    19:41

    It's perverse. It's what's happening is you've got a capital intensive industry by going into rental that the balance sheets throughout the whole system from manufacturer down to the dealer don't support that capital burden. So, and when you go into rental, because of what we're talking about, and this goes back to this, to the 70s. One of the questions, the first questions I got when I went to Avis was, we're making more money than we've ever made, but we keep on, our debt level keeps on growing.

    20:15

    Yep. Yep.

    20:16

    So the reason for that is that they're making imaginary money by selling a car for more than they paid for it, you know, six months, a year ago. But when they have to buy the next car, They bought it for $1,000, they sold it for $1,200, but the next car costs $1,600. So that differential had moved Avis' debt-to-equity ratio from one to one up to, it started to push four to one.

    20:47

    Imagine that. That's

    20:49

    not sustainable. No.

    20:51

    You remember the associates that used to be doing financing for automobiles and such at one point? The average debt equity on the dealerships, the construction equipment dealerships that they were financing, the average was 7.5 to 1. And you look at something like that and you say, wait a second. That's like I make $10,000 a year and I spend $75,000. I mean, what's going on here?

    21:17

    Well, that was an explanation I gave to a group of Japanese on that subject. I said that the dealers are like drug guys because. They drive around, you fly planes, they drive around fancy cars because they don't know when they're going to go to jail because the capital requirements, they're bankrupt. It's just, you might as well enjoy it before, you know, it collapses. And they looked at me like, what are you talking about? And I said, this is not sustainable.

    21:49

    And then now take Japanese companies that work and Korean companies as well. The Chinese haven't had enough of a... time experience. But the Asians look at Americans who are driving these fancy cars, flying planes, big homes, and oh, they're so rich because of all of the outward appearance. It's kind of like you can't see under the cover. So don't try and look. It's not that pretty.

    22:16

    Yeah, it's not pretty. And that's what's going on around the world is that people are losing touch with the underlying foundation of the financial system. And Unfortunately, we've got administration after administration. It doesn't matter if it's Democrat or Republican. You've got people that have come up. A lot of them don't have the education to be in the roles that they're doing. And their role is to kind of like the hunter goes out and begs the game and brings it back to the edge of the village. You know, it's like I'm only valuable if I can bring contracts. That's where I'm at, which means spend more money. And the way to get more money is set up regulations where you can clip and put your cup into the river.

    23:05

    So let's go down another branch for a second. All of this is being supported by customer activity. So we end up having a certain level of revenue, certain level of sales and parts and labor and machines and rentals, all of that. And it's predicated on a continuation of that stream. Yet that stream is extremely sensitive and vulnerable to separations, customer retention. And I don't know that this industry really pays any attention to customer retention.

    23:42

    Now, if the industry turns, I mean, it's an unusual industry where the average dealer turns 60% of their customers on a 12-month rowing basis.

    23:52

    Okay, translate that in a different way. They turn 60% of their customers over a 12-month period. What does that mean?

    23:59

    It means that if I had 100 customers 12 months ago, I've got 95.5. In this 12 months. So every month I move forward, I lose another for the most most dealers, they lose another 5% of their customers. If you do that 12 times in a row, which they the average dealer does, you've lost 60%. You've replaced them, but you've lost 60% of your customer base on a rolling 12 month basis, which is really untenable.

    24:38

    And that's the piece of the puzzle that I get pushback on all the time. I've got 2,000 customers, Ron. What are you talking about that I'm losing 5% or 50% or something? I've still got 2,000 customers because they're acquiring customers at a rate that is roughly equal to what they're losing. That is not a sustainable circumstance. At some point in time, you lose, there's no longer new customers.

    25:07

    Well, the radius, there's an arithmetic relationship for almost every dealer based upon the transportation distance and time from their service location. And literally, for most dealers, if one is a 10-mile radius, if you go out 40 miles, that's going to be 0.3 for retention, for revenues, for transactions. It is a straight line down. This goes to where do you assign your starting salesmen, sales territories. A lot of people put people outside their radius and they always fail. They go, no one's ever been able to get that territory. And you're going, yeah, you're giving them, you're going, you're telling them to go out there with a BB gun to go fight elephants.

    25:56

    I remember we started the product support sales function within the Caterpillar franchise in 1970 in Montreal. The criteria for a salesman at that time to sell parts and labor was they had to have neat handwriting because everything had to be quoted. Because as a dealership, we believed that the shingles sold, not the salesman. And unless the salesman brought a quote that could testify to the fact that they were involved in that transaction, we weren't going to pay them. It was really weird. And then we went to territories that were geographic, just like you said. So here's your counties, let's say. And everybody in those counties is your, every customer in there is yours. And I used to say, well, wait a second. The company's not controlling their marketing or sales plan. The salesman is. And what do you know about those customers? The salesman has this little black book, but we know nothing. And over time.

    27:00

    We've now got to the point of Salesforce and customer relationship management software. And management's looking at that like a baseball bat to control. Did the salesman make any calls? Who did they call on?

    27:15

    Yeah, most of this, the real business, because most dealers have enough customers coming in all the time. The real business, as you mentioned earlier, was the retention. So every year that you retain somebody. And these are real numbers. We've got enough we can show you company after company. If you retain them two years, so let's say you're going to lose 60% of your new customers the first year. But if those 40% will buy twice as much in the second year, they'll buy four times as much in the third year. If you have their phone number in a system that someone else can call them, like parts service, the other departments. and have their email that you can reach out to them and do that periodically. You'll double that up again. So it'll go 248. So the real money is in your real money in this business is retention. And that starts with getting the customer that you currently have to refer you. internal to their company.

    28:24

    So you pick up the parts and service additional equipment of any of the other decision makers within that entity. That's the business and the flow of new customers come in, but oftentimes they're not going to be a viable customer for two, three, four, five years, depending on the territory. Right.

    28:42

    So let's translate that back into Winsby and to your company. What can you do for a dealer that will expose these truths, and then how do you help them to address those truths?

    29:00

    I think the biggest thing is what we do is we run the analytics. And I tell people it's not accounting that we're looking at. We're looking at customers and transactions. And a lot of people think that the business is selling equipment. But from the customer standpoint, that's only 1% or 2% of the transactions. that a customer has with you in any given year.

    29:25

    So let's freeze there for a second. By transactions, we're talking about a sale. What we do as an industry is we record these things in sales dollars, which skews our attention level. Yes.

    29:38

    And the manufacturers reinforce that because they're all about selling equipment, which is only one or 2%. New equipment's half of that. So half of it's used equipment. So you're looking at from a customer standpoint, a very small event, but the decision that you've got is, is going to be based upon parts service and to a lesser extent, rental,88% of your transactions for the average dealer. It, you know, they are parts and service. And you can sell somebody six sticks of bubble gum and. they're more likely to buy a million-dollar machine just because you've got a relationship with them. So that's why it's important to expand the reach and capture the interactions.

    30:33

    So you do with something that I'm really fascinated with and completely in tune with, data analytics. And the way I characterize a lot of that, Steve, is that we have a lot of data but very little information. We print out this 700 page report with 50 lines of page. So we got 3,500 lines of quote data and nobody summarizes it.

    31:03

    And also you got an industry like some of us, including myself, who are learning disabled and are not going to look at all that.

    31:12

    Learning disabled is an interesting, I'm just doing a paper on, on lifelong learning and how education is changing. And it's. It's both disgusting and fascinating what I'm finding. And nothing surprising, but the data analytics that you uncover for a dealership relative to that retention subject, that's got to get people's attention.

    31:36

    It does for the people that pay attention to it. A 1% improvement. So if you can take your 95% retention rate and move it to 96%, that generally translates into a 12% growth rate. So most people have already a customer base that with just a little bit of effort can move to 96%, which will translate that into a guaranteed growth rate going forward, just because of the flow of customers that have been coming, assuming they can handle it.

    32:09

    So you have the facts, you have the evidence, you're presenting the truth, you have examples where this happens. What in the heck is holding us back?

    32:20

    You've got people, the industry is a reactionary industry. It's like everyone's face now. I can't get machines, so I'm spending double, triple the time hand-holding customers who are waiting for a machine or waiting for a part. So it's a day of reacting, reacting, reacting. So the goal here is what can you do to improve the likelihood that you're going to retain those customers? And I tell people, the first thing you got to do is when a customer calls you, is say yes. Answer the phone and say yes. What do you want? They're going to ask you, do you have it? And the next thing is when. And you can say, oh, I've got it. And then they're going to say when. Oh, it's going to be a year from now. And then maybe they'll ask, rarely ask how much it's going to cost. Well, that's going to be a million dollars. Well, they can say no to that, but you're not second guessing. Just say yes.

    33:20

    And it turns out if you do say yes, for most dealers,92% of the time you can meet their needs when it comes to parts within 48 hours.

    33:30

    Yeah. Yeah. There's no question about that. The statement of saying yes, that's a beautiful way of looking at it. And going back to your original premise that we've got all these complications. We're not looking at the right problem. The problem is defection, is customers going away.

    33:54

    Right. The number one reason is mismanaging their expectations. We track this for a lot of people. If I don't keep them informed, they have to call me. They're going to give me a negative comment, and I'm going to lose a third of those customers in the next 12 months. See, that's the other part.

    34:13

    So you have, again, data analytics. You give them the overview. macro statements. And then on a monthly basis, you give them back factual evidence of what has been happening. True?

    34:26

    Yes. And we also give them a forecast, which has gotten to the point for this industry, over a 95,96% accuracy for the next 12 months. But we're also identifying which customers at risk and who they should call first. Right. And then once they've done that, if they're able to, a lot of dealers aren't even in a position to engage the customers they do have. But if you're going to choose customers to come in, why not choose the industries and the distance and the people that are going to turn into what, quote unquote, stable accounts, which generate 10 times the revenue of their average customer. Those are easily identified. And it ends up. Who are you capable of selling? And are they going to buy frequently enough that you're going to retain them?

    35:18

    Yeah. And the other part of that is that the customer, everybody talks about market share and share a wallet and all the rest of this nonsense. I'm only interested in the profit that I can generate out of that transaction. And, you know, I'm a maniac. I'm reading. It's part of what I have to do in my work. So one of the books recently is called Indistractable by a Harvard professor. in human behavior. And it's fascinating. And one of the illustrations he uses, I love Greek myths and mythology, and he uses the story about Tantalus, which is the man whose name gave us the word tantalize. So he died and went to hell. And he lived in an area where there was all manner of fruit. And whenever he was hungry, he could reach up and get the fruit, except the fruit kept going further and further away from him. He lived in a wonderful verdant valley that had crystal clear, pure water.

    36:15

    If ever he was thirsty, he could just kneel down on the bank of the river and take a drink, except the water kept going further and further away from him. The problem is not that he had access and couldn't get the food or couldn't get the water. The problem was he was dead. He didn't need water or food. So what the hell? And we've got the same problem. Retention's our problem. And we're worried about, I can't find a person. Right.

    36:40

    The idea that you will be able to sell a customer on a machine that you haven't done business with. But if you look at the time it takes to bring them on where they're buying parts from you and doing all this other stuff, it's a tedious process. So the manufacturers love it. That's how they're giving you market share. That's why the disconnect between the OEMs and the dealer, the customer. The decision to buy a machine used to be maybe 20% the OEM and price was 20%. Today, the manufacturer is down below 5% in the US. And what it costs, and this is hard for people to understand because price always comes up, but price is down to less than 8% of the decision to purchase. It's when, it really is, do you have it? When can I get it? And will it do the job? And I'm willing to pay a premium depending on my application.

    37:45

    Yeah. You know, we have several people that contribute blogs and podcasts, one of whom is Metz Kramer, and he's been talking about the digital dealership and how we need to be converting our businesses into it. And so you translate all of that into these little pieces and important pieces like what you're bringing up. An OEM sells a machine to a dealer. That's good. The OEM makes money on a dealer that they assemble. They didn't manufacture the piece parts. They assemble this darn thing. The dealer gets the machine, turns around and sells the machine. And then I get back statistics from most of the manufacturers that are 95% market share in that range. So it's the vast majority of machines being sold in this country. 40% of those machines don't buy anything in the way of parts except for warranty in the first 12 months. That's impossible. They need filters. They need fluids. They need all manner of different things. And 40% buy nothing.

    38:53

    They buy nothing. And actually, it's higher than that. When you look at the number of customers a dealer has, if a guy has two or three machines, he is buying at a minimum 12 times a year product and services that a dealer can. provides. They're not, but they're going to NAPA, they're going to alternatives because the dealer isn't fulfilling that demand, either because they don't have a good, better, best on filters, or they're trying to sell an OEM price that's been doubled up on margin every time it moves. So whoever manufactured it in China, whoever handled it. Coming across the border, the OEM puts their margin on, the dealer puts their margin on, and pretty soon the gray market, it looks like you're ripping me off because the OEM price that I have to pay is double or triple what I could buy on the same exact part that's being made by the same exact manufacturer over in China who's shipping in gray parts.

    39:56

    And if we look at this going backwards, In the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, the barrier of entry into our markets, into our customers was information. We had the information. Nobody else did. And what I'm calling the golden age of information with Google, you want a question and answer to ask Google. It might not be 100%, but you'll get an answer.

    40:19

    You'll get something that'll lead you to a better alternative. So I look at the way business works. We work with a lot of different industries. But people have to start looking at, and this is where Metz is right. If you look at the transaction, the moment, it's always two people, two people exchanging goods and services for something. That moment, then if you build backwards and go, well, what do you need in that moment? Well, you need to answer your phone. And you need to communicate with them. the most efficient way possible, what you currently have to offer that will solve their problems. Because again, people are so self-interested, they don't really care about anything other than what their needs are. So you build your organization from that moment and look at where do you come in contact and how do you optimize that? And that's why, I mean, the technology today, people get lost with the crypto world.

    41:22

    But what's really underlying that is, the exchange of knowledge instantaneously without going to a central processor. You're going to decentralize the world and allow someone at that moment, whether it's a universal price other than handling and transportation for raw materials, for parts, for whatever you can, or the value of an individual's labor, whether they're in India or the United States, they can demand. what the world rate is for their services and knowledge. That technology is collapsing this world that's controlled by a handful of different institutions in every industry. And I always tell people it's like the farmers down in Texas when they tried to set up a co-op. I think I've told Ron this story before. They called out the National Guard until it killed about 125 of them. The idea that they were going to go negotiate with the banks, the grain elevators in the railroad.

    42:26

    I was so, you know, you know, these guys, this is so un-American because it's you're reaching into my pocket.

    42:34

    Well, and that's also one of the things that tweaked my interest in your education, your background and your thinking was the fact that here comes crypto. And everybody's scared to death because there's no underlying value. There's no underlying value behind our currencies today either. It's one of the biggest cons perpetrated on mankind other than that women control the world or men control the world. Women have got that con. But you take that further. And as you say, it doesn't need a central processor anymore. I don't need a business to be the hub of my communication or as. Stephanie Smith at Newman Tractor made a comment that I find is lovely. Our salesmen are no longer walking brochures. That's what they did in the old days. So here comes Alex Kraft with his business, Heave, where a customer puts up on the internet the requirement for a machine. And salesmen and dealerships get texts to indicate that that's happening. Then it's up to them.

    43:35

    And as Alex says, do you want to help this customer? And give them a quote. And nobody's anywhere. I mean, it's a salesman and a customer interacting in the cloud. And nobody knows what's happening. It's fascinating how this transaction world is changing.

    43:53

    Well, they're building the tokens, the cryptocurrency. People ignore the bullshit about the currencies. What's happening is they're creating tokens with all your information, your credit cards, whatever you want. And all you got to do is touch it. And you make the transaction. You haven't exchanged any data other than the immediate transfer of whatever the value is that you're offering to pay for whatever the service or product that you purchased. That's happening today. And the reason why you're seeing all these crazy things that are going on is it's happening at a very rapid rate behind the scenes. You've got central banks that are moving to crypto. in anticipation of all this infrastructure that has existed in clipping coupons off of everybody's transaction will disappear and you'll have a world market that will optimize the utilization of our assets.

    44:54

    And you see it with Uber, you see it with Airbnb, this taking an asset, getting 100% utilization out of it rather than having... thousands of cars sitting in garages all day or taking up parking spaces within the city, adding to the congestion and problems.

    45:13

    So we started talking about currencies. We then moved to balance sheets. We moved to the normalization, if you will, or making more efficient a supply chain. And then the pandemic exposing some of the warts that... that we were too vulnerable to a small number of suppliers for some major products. Then we've had a blow up of the oil and gas business. I think that's been created by the US government. And that's translated itself out to the world, which has driven inflation to the highest level wholesale wise that was reported this morning that we've had in almost ever. And the dealer is sitting in the middle of this, trying to make a living. trying to satisfy customers and they're not looking at the right problem. You say yes is a perfect answer. Whatever the hell the customer asks, say yes. I'll get it. I'll look after it. Don't worry about it.

    46:12

    In other words, I want the customer to understand that they can transfer their problems to me and I will look after it. And then you can measure my retention as Winsby. You can give me my forecast. You can tell me which customers I should be paying attention to and why. And then it's up to me to execute.

    46:31

    Great. And it's very simple.

    46:33

    It sounds very clear. Yeah, exactly.

    46:35

    Very clear. Some of the components are put in a customer satisfaction program because it'll tell you what their expectations are and whether you're not meeting them. It's simple as that. When we looked at three years of dealers that were on a program versus dealers that weren't, the dealers that were on a customer satisfaction program grew 44% more. just by adjusting and improving and paying attention. It seems like it moves like molasses, but you'll be surprised how quickly.

    47:12

    Oh, I agree. I agree. So let's turn this into a little bit of a commercial, if you will, for Winsby. How long does it take? Say I signed up and I'm a dealer and I signed up with you. How long does it take for you? And what do you need from me in order to be able to give me the results of your data analytics?

    47:34

    Normally, we need three years of invoices. It's just a download transactions. We're not looking for accounting statements or anything like that. We're just looking for three years of interactions or more, usually three years and year to date. And the AI can then grab that data, determine what your radius is. And also, we use that to determine which industries and markets you're best able to serve.

    48:02

    So freeze frame for a second, AI being artificial intelligence, you have the computer algorithms go out and give you back.

    48:10

    Yes.

    48:11

    And you designed those algorithms. You made the determination of what that algorithm should do.

    48:16

    Yeah, it's a self-learning too. So it learns out of, so every branch actually is different.

    48:23

    Oh, and so you don't just do it for the dealership, you do it at the store level.

    48:27

    Story level and department, because every branch has a different cast of characters from competitors to customers. Right, right. And also distance. If you have a major highway going by your branch, you can go out 60 to 100 miles.

    48:42

    So I give you three years by month, I'm assuming, of transactions. Yes. For parts, sales, for work orders, for rentals, for equipment sales, new and used, correct? Yep. How long does it take you to do the analysis and come back to me with a report of what my business looks like?

    49:01

    Usually within a week or two.

    49:04

    Okay. And then we either do Zoom or face-to-face a discussion.

    49:10

    We go through the reports and then you can decide if you want to continue doing the analytics. And also you can take the information and focus on a handful of things that you should really focus on.

    49:22

    Okay, so let's say I'm a $50 million business. I'm a $100 million business. I'm a $250 million business, and I'm a $500 million business. Those four levels. Do you have variable pricing or is it a fixed rate?

    49:37

    It's really just based upon transaction costs. Well, not even that, Ron. It's by location. So it ends up being we charge people. $350. And for every additional branch beyond one, we charge them an additional 50.

    49:58

    So if I've got 10 branches, that means I've got nine times 50,450 plus 350. That means I'm going to pay you $800 to give me back a report that tells me what I could and should do.

    50:12

    Yes.

    50:14

    Okay. So that's step one. What's step two?

    50:17

    Step two is putting, you know, what... What needs to get done? A lot of times people don't have emails. You can't even reach the customer. So it's getting their master list in shape. So there's no point in talking about all the other stuff until you have a decent list.

    50:35

    So let me call that a customer profile. Is that a fair comment? Yes. And it's everything and anything to do with that customer. Their billing address, their shipping locations, the machine ownership, the key people. the likes and dislikes, the needs of wants, the demographics, all of that, right? Yep. Okay, so on a scale of 1 to 10, our industry,10 being wonderful,1 being terrible, our industry, how do they do with customer profiles?

    51:04

    Most dealers that we start with are lucky to have 15% of that information in any form within any system they've got. And even if they have a CRM. We maintain other people. We maintain CRMs because they never get updated and they're out of date. And with the change of personnel that's going on.

    51:23

    So wait a second, freeze frame there a second. So I've got it in my dealership. I've got a standalone CRM. I have followed your instructions and I've created a profile. Now I've got a problem because I have to synchronize the profile and the CRM. Correct. Yes. And you will do that for me?

    51:47

    Yes.

    51:48

    Okay. And how much does that cost?

    51:51

    It's usually just by the hours of calling. So that's part of the analytics. So we'll pull that list and we can populate. The analytics will produce the account and show where the holes are. And then you can download, we produce a master list every month for every dealer.

    52:12

    Okay, so now let's move into the retention piece. I bought the original research. You've given me the report. I've agreed to sign up with you. I want you to maintain my CRM. I want you to synchronize all of this stuff for me. Now I want you to give me a report back on how I'm doing. How much do you charge for that?

    52:36

    That's part of the ongoing feed. Normally, it's the same rolling price of the $350. plus the $50 in location going forward.

    52:47

    So why don't you have more dealers? Is it just visibility?

    52:53

    I think it's just going visibility and putting the time to it. We get sidetracked with other stuff.

    53:00

    Yeah, isn't that the truth? Isn't that the truth? Okay, so I think we've covered a fair amount of ground and we've given people a fair amount of stuff to chew over. What I would really... like is if you could create and give me a blog that describes and defines your business and how it works that we can post and use that as a bit of a promotion piece for you guys.

    53:25

    Yeah, we'll put together a blog to do that.

    53:28

    Okay. Steve, this, I think this has been wonderful. I've sure enjoyed it. I hope the audience has enjoyed it. Have you got any kind of closing comments that you'd like to put the ribbon on this discussion? Cause we've covered a whole hell of a lot of ground here.

    53:43

    Yeah, most of the dealers make it, they tend to react too much and they need to pay attention to that moment that someone's touching that customer and manage that event and see if they can automate as much as possible, which is what Metz is saying. Let's look at how do you make it so you can touch somebody and just touch them once and do it right and keep them informed. Again, the number one reason for losing the customer is mismanaged expectations. And number two is your personnel or their personnel changes.

    54:20

    Steve, that's wonderful. And thank you so much. And I'd like to wrap it this time. I want to have more of these, as you can imagine. So to the audience who's listening, I hope you've enjoyed this conversation. I hope you got out of it as much as I did. Thank you for listening to our podcast. We appreciate your support. Should you have any thoughts or comments, please don't hesitate to contact us at www. learningwithoutscars. com. The time is now. Mahalo.

    Steve Clegg introduces a new subject in our blogs covering data analytics for a dealership from customer transactions to forecasting and everything relating to the business.

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