Mike Pentz and Mets Kramer and I continue our conversation about branding, addressing the challenges of getting this done.

Okay. So the rain sensor guy, there's a guy who makes water table sensors in northern Colorado. And he came in and said, hey, I need some help with branding and marketing. And we said, okay, tell me what you do. Tell me about your business. And he said, well, I create sensors that go into different liquids. And he got very, very technical right off the bat. And he said, okay, that's a great first step. And I'll kind of outline. these questions on how we can apply them to our own businesses. But to start with the story, he was saying, okay, yeah, I do this, but you know, how do I get more public awareness? I said, well, that's great. How do you use these, these sensors? Well, we use them in water tables. Okay. What kind of water tables? Well, we actually use them in the aquifer. We work with the government and fracking companies to make sure that the water table and the aquifers stay safe. And it's like, okay, that's vastly different idea there. saying that we make sensors that identify and protect the Aqua table or the check water purity versus I make these sensors in this little void that becomes highly technical, right? It becomes inspirational and aspirational. And suddenly it's like, okay, that clicks. That's a really neat company. I can get behind that. I can get excited about that, even though I don't know any of the technical stuff anymore. Now, suddenly that's like, this is a really cool company that people need to hear about because they're doing everything they can to keep our drinking water safe. And that's kind of the tie that marketers make and that you make in branding that as you define that identity, that will lead you to something much more compelling than I make these technical sensors that are 12 nanometers and you can insert them using aluminum or whatever, right?

No. It's, it becomes transactional one. And when it comes to managing our own businesses, when we don't take an aspirational or an inspirational view of our own business, what happens is things become just this transactional we're talking about. A good example of that is a lot of small businesses say, well, I have to have four blog posts, or I have to have 10 tweets a day or whatever it might be. And it's like, that's great. I always tell people that tactics. without intention is worthless because you can be doing those things.

Because you see people who will just throw stuff up there, but if you're not creating something. When I worked at Fitch, right? We talked about last week, I worked at this company, Fitch. We designed different products and we would tell our case studies and the case studies would be, we helped design this plastic. It got very technical and it got very transactional. It's like, here's what we did, dah, dah, dah, dah. Rather than saying, we helped design the Apple iPhone to create a new experience in the way that you interact with your digital devices or whatever. we miss the boat on connecting those things. And the reality is, is any real marketing company, their whole focus and their whole pitch to other customers and to their clients should be that we help you tell your story better because that's what you are. You're a storyteller. And being able to try to connect those dots, I kind of came up with like three questions that I always like to ask. And I've done this with my business. I've done this with lots of other businesses. Is first establish, what do you do? Be able to articulate in a sentence or two. It's kind of like the elevator pitch, right? So I buy and sell asshole paving equipment. Cool. That's one. What do you do? Two, how is that used? What do customers do with that? That's great. Well, customers can call me and I can help them find equipment they're looking for or help them get rid of stuff or I can help give them trade values on things. So that's kind of like the second question. And the third question is what impact does that have? Well. It completely changes the game when they can confidently manage their fleet by knowing what a real value is, what a real wholesale number and retail value is. And they can find the right machine and not be bogged down by being forced into a machine. And suddenly that third thing that what impact does it have by leading those questions along? That allows me to start saying, OK, I don't just buy and sell asphalt equipment. I'm I'm a resource to them. A dealership would look at that and say, your job isn't just to sell a piece of equipment to a customer. Your job is to be the support team for that customer. Right. It's you're in the service business. You know, that that changes the mindset for being in an equipment sales business into a service business.

Right.

Sales goals.

you know, changes how you talk about it too. Yeah.

The chip's not any different. It's just another camera that has one more megapixel.

But it's an experience.

It's a culture thing. It's more than a lot of times traditionally, especially when you had like the Mad Men era and you had advertising, it's like, let's create a cool jingle, let's create a hook, and let's get something that creates an experience within 30 seconds. And then we had this move of mass market convenience and manufacturing. And now it's the old adage, biblical adage, like there's nothing new under the sun, right? And so we have things that are the same. So it differentiates products because right now, if you get a Google phone, if you get a Samsung phone, if you get an Apple phone, each of the ecosystems will have the similar features, if not 99% parity of features. across the board. What's different is what the experience is going to be, who your family is going to use, word of mouth. And so suddenly it becomes an experiential thing. And so it's a cultural mindset to where if you can get everybody to buy in, it also changes the way we manage though, because you're talking about those frontline employees. The most important employee is the mechanic that's interacting with the customer. It's the sales guy that's stopping by their place. You have to understand that that mindset shift as you figure out what your brand is, as you try to embrace this culture, if that's what you aspire to. Some people, again, will just want to say, sweet, I just want to sell the equipment and you want to move that. That's totally fine. It's if you're trying to build beyond that and you're trying to really have market penetration, market penetration comes from creating that experience. And you have to learn how to incentivize those people and prepare them the most way. or in the best way so that they're equipped to do these things. And that starts with that aspirational brand aspect because all these things that we just talked about, those questions that we're getting into, once you say, what impact do I have? Then you have to get other people on board with it. And that is how you do that before you even get to a single tweet, blog, or tactic. Yeah.

it's true. You almost need to send out like, think of yourself as a customer, right? And I'll get to it in a second. But I think what's interesting about Mets and I is our pitch to our customers is essentially the same thing, but from a different angle. We're there to support you in what we're good at. Right. And it's interesting to think about. What would a dealership look like if with the sales guy, they also send the technician say, hey, I'm here. I know you didn't sign for the extra warranty, but if you need anything, you pick up the phone. I'll be here to help you. You tell me what you need. I want you to see my face. And they just do some sort of check-in like that. And they're incentivized to do so. And suddenly a customer will go, hey, well, this other guy just had some sales guy show up, sell me this thing. And now I can't get a hold of him when my machines broke down. And this other guy's saying, hey, I'm ready to go. If you need any, if there's any. We've noticed over the last year, you have these particular parts that keep wearing out. So we're going to stock a couple extra for you. Suddenly, that technician is doing marketing and doing sales and doing all these other valuable things. It kind of flips. It also goes to line with the cultural trend now, where especially coming from Colorado, trade jobs are... on the rise because they're making a great living. Nobody's doing them and everybody's lost the knowledge to be able to do it themselves. And so, you know, electricians and, and apprentice plumbers are making 80, $90,000 as an apprentice.

A hundred percent. We've lost, we've lost some of that, some of that edge. And so. When we're developing brands and we start talking about brands, having a clear picture of your business, where you want to go, who you are, how you're impacting people. That's like the first concrete step. And I'd even encourage people to take the time and actually write it down. Because from that, then you can say, okay, what words or phrases stand out to me? What colors represent this? What does that? That will impact all the tactics down the road, but you don't have any meaning. unless you've taken the time to actually sit and mull it over for a bit or ask your customer. Best thing to do is ask your customer, what do I mean to you? What do you want me to mean to you?

And we're not always the most equipped to do so. That's the sad part.

Sure. Like how many business owners will take the time to go to the janitor and say, look. What you do is important. What you are doing is valuable. You literally make things better that we can work here and do our jobs. And we appreciate you and we trust you. And building up some sort of mentorship type thing to say, hey, you know, parts and service guy, I know that this is tough for you. I know that talking is not your thing, but what you're doing really makes a difference. And this is part of the grease on the wheels. And you are just, how many people take the time to do that aside from? hey, here's this great monetary thing. You know, it's like I always tell people, you know, I always joke that I'm the porcelain cleaner because I just do whatever needs to be done. And the people that work for me, it's like, no, no, no, you guys, you guys are more important than I am as far as I'm concerned. And when I talk to the customers, my whole pitch to the customers is always, look, I need to do whatever I can because I want my kids to work with your kids. And as you start to build that mentality and then apply it to the customers and apply it to when you interact with employees, that's the cultural change that really we're talking about. That's where brand identity becomes really, really strong because it's a cultural lifestyle. It's not just words on a page or a logo or a picture. It actually means something.

Yeah, I view it as everything kind of ties together.

To articulate it and being able to correctly define, I like to say story just because that's what I used. But it's like when you figure out what your story is. That impacts not just how you market, not just how you create a logo, not just how you build a website, tweet, et cetera, tactically, but it makes you figure out your intentions. It requires you to understand your intentions before you do things. And I think that that can dramatically change the trajectory of a business.

and stay on topic.

Right. And because of economies of scale, customers don't have any other choice. That's where there's opportunity. That's one of the things when I talk to guys like BOMAG and stuff like that, that it's like you guys have an opportunity here to change this stuff through service and then to catch up with those type of things. That's how Ingersoll, Rand and Blanox made their name before everything went to pot. It was service. Because the market leaders say, well, look, we'll just keep pushing machines. We'll just keep pushing machines. And guess what? With government contracting and the way that we do bidding and stuff over here, it's like, well, I'll just add an end to the bid and we'll just go. And it's just kind of stuck in this loop. All it takes is one company to come in and say, no, no, no, I'm going to be service first. And they'll skyrocket.

That's where that inspirational, aspirational stuff comes in.

You can't force people to think that way. And it's okay if you don't. If that's not natural to you, it's like square peg, round hole. Like, I don't need to tell a story. I just want to do this. That's okay. But for those people who are searching and trying to do something more and trying to engage and pulling their heads, how do I gain more market percentage? How do I do this? When you sit back and then you actually examine yourself or the people trying to figure out, tie it into branding, right? I want to do a new logo. I want to do this. I want to figure out who I am. Take it to the next level. This is the time to start thinking about these things and think about what you do well, think about what you can do better, all the things we've been discussing today. And you have to start there with coming to a conclusion about what direction that you want to take. And then that direction, then you can create your tactics. But a lot of people don't take the time to step back and say, it's no different than, like, did I tell the story about my grandfather? My grandfather, he ran a Blahnox Case Dynapack dealership for 40 years. He started out as a mechanic, didn't have a high school degree. And he started in central Pennsylvania, moved over to Pittsburgh and basically started like he was a mechanic. He was trained as a mechanic. That's what he was good at. And they said, hey, there's a sales rule. I want you to open this up and start this in Western PA. I said, OK. And he started it up and he had that mechanics knowledge. And his whole focus was his whole mentality. And this is for asphalt paving, right? His whole idea was never lose a load of asphalt. That's what he said all the time to his customers. I want you to never lose a load of asphalt. And he backed it up. And for 38 years or so, he had 98% market share in Pennsylvania on the Blonox parts because no one could outsell him. And he could get whatever price he wanted, et cetera, et cetera, because his whole thing was you're buying a reputation. You're buying me. You're buying my word. And I'm going to keep a million dollars. parts sitting at the dealership for you because you will not lose load of asphalt if I can help it. And that's drastically different than let's push the machines. But Blahnox sold more pavers. I mean,98% market share is absolutely unheard of.

No. And when Ingersoll Rand bought them, it turned into we have to maximize margins and profits. They stopped looking at the long haul. They started looking at how can I get dividends today for my shareholders as opposed to how can I make sure that my business lasts for the next 100 years?

Right.

No, and even when they're giving product away, they can't, like Volvo can't do anything about it.

Owners and upper management have to care. It can't be just one guy siloed caring, right? You have to give a damn about it. It'd be no different than if I, it's really, it's really, really easy for us to say, look, you should care about this, Matt. You don't understand, man. You should care about this. Okay. I'm going to go hit up the links and we'll catch you later. Right? Like it's really easy for us to say things and not actually live it. Part of that, you know, like I always view things as the best leaders are servants and, and. we're getting into leadership beyond branding and stuff like that with this discussion. But the point being is, is that if you want to, if you, if you want someone, if you want one of your employees to believe something, then you better live it and you better believe it yourself. Right. Because otherwise, otherwise it's very, very, it's no different than you talking about your gentleman with training, right? You want him, you want these people to be trained and you want them to understand, but unless he takes the time to go through it and see what they're actually learning. So it's kind of meaningless. It's like, look, this guy's sitting on his laurels, taking his bag, and he's not doing his stuff. When I came on board with my dad, my dad made me go to paving school, to two paving schools. And he was like, no, no, no, you got to learn from the bottom and you have to earn your stripes. And it's like, okay, that mentality can be applied to me as a business owner, regardless. If I'm going to put someone else through this, I better know exactly what they're doing and how to get through it too. Because if I can do that and bring them alongside me. suddenly that creates a much more compelling interaction and a compelling experience that they'll learn something, they'll embrace the things that I embrace. Otherwise, you're just disconnected from them and going to say, here's your paycheck, right?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My dad can tell you a story about a machine going down at midnight at the airport, the Pittsburgh airport, when they were paving 30 foot wide. And he got a phone call and said, hey, this needs fixed. So he said, all right, boy, let's go. And so they went over there and he was president of that group or whatever. And he's out there in his suit, throws his tie over or tucks it in and he starts pulling off solenoids. He gets them up and running and he has a new machine to him and they had 10 or 15 trucks of asphalt that needed unloaded and he got it done. And it's like how many guys, how many presidents, vice presidents, upper management now in any dealership that you know would take the time to do that? Not that my grandfather is like the best thing ever, but it's like St. Francis of Asai would say, in all things, I'll paraphrase, in all things preach and when necessary use words, right? Let your actions. speak for yourself.

I think that's why you don't have many people that are my age getting into the business or younger, right? You know, it's like your mid 30s and your 20 year olds in your mid 30s. Like there aren't many of us.

No, no, that's it. That's a loaded question. So, so it's so that's a that's a big, big question. But I think ultimately, again, if. If you have business owners that are engaged in wanting to, this is something that we deal with. And granted, it's my dad and I, but I deal with it because my dad's such a big personality and he's kind of a stalwart of the industry and he's the ultimate sales guy. And I'm not, I'm different than him. So how do I change the, how do like my big struggle and what I've worked on the last 10 years is how do I change the perception from being Mark Pence and to being Calvin group? And that's a big thing that you have to deal with. But part of doing that and having that mindset change means that my dad and I have an easier time getting other people who work for us to buy into it. When we do that, it's a whole lot easier to say, here's what we're doing. Here's what we're living. Here's how we're going through it and bring people on to walk alongside us and that we can mentor and be mentored by. That attitude is a whole lot different than I need a sales guy to get me some more numbers in this area. Again, I want this to be, I'm looking, you have to look long-term is really what it boils down to.

I see.

That's what you get when you get. Two ADD guys and a Canadian.