Bruce Baker brings us up to date on his "Contracting with Executive Leadership" option.

So far, so good. I'm noticing that your beard is starting to look a little bit more like mine.

It's been some time. So how about you bring everybody up to speed as to what you've been doing and where you were and where you are?

Yeah, it's more organizational development.

You know, so let me switch gears on you. You're a hands-on CEO now. Pretty much, pretty much. So as that, what would be your number one goal as a hands-on CEO with an organization? What's the number one thing that you need in order for you to be successful in that corporation?

Okay, so stop for a second. Sure. The way you approach this type of work, you're looking at the end result. And then looking at the steps to get you there.

Yeah, it fundamentally comes down to the culture that you're trying to create, doesn't it? It is.

At least they're acknowledging it. That's... That opens the door. Yes. You know, it's funny. One of the things I did very early on in my life was work with delinquent boys in a prison. Yeah. And I did personality profiling, psychologically profiling, so that we could determine treatment programs. And I used to tease that that was perfect training for me for this industry because everybody in here is a bunch of delinquents, right? Yeah. But to mergers and acquisitions, another path, same place. It's easy to merge. It's easy to acquire. It's really difficult to merge. And fundamentally, it's because you're taking the cultures of two different companies and putting them together, and it's creating a new one. So you go in. The owner says, well, gee, how, Bruce, are you able to do that, and I'm not? I can't give that to him. You can't give it to him. You can show him. You can do the old training and teaching coaching thing. Yeah. But they've got to live it with you. Yes.

And that transfer from you to them, that's a trick.

You know, I guess fundamentally it comes down to trust.

You know, the... So, you know, I used to do a lot of the quote, I called it rent a manager. I'd go into a place and I'd do a discovery, a review and what we used to call them and what keeps you awake at night. What are your pain points? What are your sore spots? And we'd identify them and prioritize them and then define and describe how we need to go and fix that.

And then I would. do it in pieces, maybe a week, a month, maybe twice a month, but always a gap. Because as you know, I'm an impatient son of a gun. So if I was there every day, it's like a Chinese torture. I'm going to be sooner or later, I'm going to be running over you because come on now, let's go. Come on, what's up? If I'm gapping it, there will be progress. So I don't get as anxious. In your case, when you're there all the time, The trap is you become the solution and then you can't escape.

And being the good guy, you say, oh, well, that's okay. I'll do it. Yeah. I'll do it. Of course. And, and that enables bad behavior on their part. Yeah.

it's interesting. The people that I've, and I've worked with a lot of people over the 50 plus years, the people that are most successful are long range thinkers. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And kind of like what you said, you reverse engineer, you start at the end. I always look at the end result first. And then how do we get there? Where are we going? Sort of thing. So, you know, my tease is, let's say I lived in Vancouver, I'm going to go to Montreal. Okay, that's easy. I'll get a map and we'll plan it out. Well, wait a second, I need to be in Montreal next Tuesday. Okay, that's a different map.

So how? So this is fun. It's exciting for you, I think.

It's the first time, in effect, in your career, you're the boss.

that feel? Good? Bad? Nervous? Anxious?

Well, yeah, I've seen you do that. And you're right. You do it very well. Think in terms of a coach in any sport gets fired and a new coach arrives. And let's say it's hockey and I got 25 to 30 players. I've got assistant coaches. I've got general managers. I've got owners. And I walk into the room with the players for the first time. Bet your Bippy are going to be anxious.

What do you say? How do you present yourself? Who are you? Yeah. You know, I don't care if you're God Almighty. You know, that's not going to be a warm and fuzzy feeling.

So what do you say? How do you have that first session? Well,

Yeah, it's interesting. I used to have a little practice called five things. And I would have the team, and we're all together, and we're in a room. Maybe there's six of us, maybe 10, but no more than 10, obviously. And say, okay, fine. Write down five things. That if you could get done, would make your life at work, would make your life better. Yeah. Okay, that's finished. Now write down five things that in your job are a real pain in the butt to do. Okay, that's done. Now write five things that if you could change the process at work, it would make the job so much better. And then we take those five things and put them up on a board. And it was amazing. How many were on all three lists?

And then my question is, okay, it would make your life better. It makes the company better. And it's a pain in the ass to do it. Why haven't you done it? And everybody starts looking around saying, you know, because it's self-evident.

But we're creatures of habit. We kind of get to our comfort zone, don't we? We do. And once we're there. Don't mess.

The trick is to have people understand that failure is not a penalty.

And our society, our lives, we're kind of conditioned differently than that. Yeah. Our parents want us to succeed. Our schools want us to succeed. Our sports teams, everything that we have going on, our dating, everything. Yeah. You can't fail. Well, wait a second. How are you going to learn if you don't fail? Right.

It's true. Yeah. It's true. You know, I... I don't like going around in too many different personal places, but my daughter was for three or four years at a school that she was at, teacher of the month, teacher of the year, almost all the time. She's good at what she does. No doubt. And she changed schools. And it's been about a month. And she hasn't bonded yet to the students the way she had in her previous school. And it was bothering the heck out of her. And last week, the fourth weekend, I think maybe it was the fifth, kids would in the playground come up and put their arms around her and hug her. And I said, well, you're finally there, aren't you? She said, I guess so. I said, does it feel more comfortable? She said, yes. Are you less anxious going to school? Yes. Are you sleeping better? Yes. So what did you do to make that happen? I don't know. So sure you do. Let's talk about it. But it's the same kind of thing. Everybody that you're working with is successful. That's why they're working at that company.

The owners or the board or somebody has said, Bruce, can you come in and facilitate, help us, transition us? Which, if you think about it, the owner would say, I failed. It's a big man or woman that has to acknowledge as well. I can't do that. Bruce, would you help me do that? Would you show me how to do that? And Lencioni's five dysfunctions of team and every example that's ever been written about it is the first thing is lack of trust. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a personal style. And now we're now we're into what your education is, you know, psychology and applied psychiatry and all the rest of that stuff. Getting people to acknowledge that they need help, that's the first issue. Getting them to be able to communicate to them, to you, what they believe is that they need the help on is the second issue. Yeah. And that's a conversation, isn't it?

The other part of that is you can't miss a step.

It really reminded of... mathematics, arithmetic. If you don't know how to add and subtract, you're never going to be able to multiply and divide. If you can't do those four, you're never going to get to calculus or trigonometry. And you can't step. And in school, it's a perfect analogy, I think. In school, a lot of kids hide. They're afraid to ask. For fear, it shows their ignorance. And, you know, Grade one. I was in a new school. I'm young for the grade. And I'm told where to go. And I go and I get in the room. And I'm not in the right classroom. Kids are bigger than me. And I'm sitting quietly until lunch. And everybody's leaving. The teacher comes up to me. She says, I don't recognize you. What's your name? And so I told her, what grade are you in? Grade one. This is grade two. How did you get in here? Who told you where to go? What? Okay, so let me help you. And I was too shy for four hours to stick my hand up and say, wait a second, I'm in the wrong place. Now, I don't know how as people we develop to that place. Maybe it's parenting. Maybe it's the whole socialization issue. Maybe it's peer groups. I don't know. I'm not smart enough to get there, but I know that there's a lot of people that are there. Corporations are there. Employees are there. Successful people are there. Right. And you've got to take them out of that.

Yeah, it reminds me of the Dalai Lama. Yeah. The purpose in life is to seek happiness. And that has nothing to do with business. Of course it does. But everything that we do, objectives, goals, measures, metrics, boom, boom, boom, month reports, you know, did you make it or not? Financials of the month, reporting to Wall Street or Bay Street. Everything is boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. What makes you happy? Professionally, personally, what makes you happy? And if you can get to that route, that's the beginning of culture, isn't it?

Well, in fact, it's something that you have to plan for. I used to have weekly communication sessions, not meetings. We just sit and talk. What did you do this week? What did you succeed at? What did you fail at? What could you have done better at? What did you need to do more at? What was standing in the way? And that wasn't good, bad, or sideways. It was just we're having a discussion. There was no criticism. It was just... And I'm reminded in Hawaii, we have outrigger canoes. And they're heavy as hell. And you got eight guys in them for the men's competition. We just had a state championship on those. And you see 40 boats going out, outriggers. And they're going for 20 miles. And as a team, it works. If anybody's out of rhythm, it fails. If anybody's stroke is too long or too short, it fails. It's totally dependent on laribosity. It's the people on the bus. Now in business, it's not physical like that canoe, but the other, it's emotional.

And again, it goes back to me not wanting to stick my hand up, having the VP of finance asking for help from the VP of sales or the VP of sales asking for help from the VP of parts and service. We don't think that way.

We don't look over the wall.

Organizational development is a very complicated function. Oh, yeah.

No, and the other, it's kind of like what we do with Learning Without Scars, Bruce. Too many people get to work after they leave school and they figure that's the end of learning. In fact, that's when it starts. And to get people, you know, I ran classes for 40 years with 20 to 30 people in a class and I would always ask. How many of you read a book in the last 30 days? And very few people would stick their hands up. I would go back to once a year and just about everybody, almost out of embarrassment, would stick their hand up. Whether they did or not, I don't know, but they stuck their hand up to get me off their butt, right? Things are changing so fast in the world around us today. You know, Jack Welch is famous for saying when the world around you is changing faster than you are, the end is near. Yes. artificial intelligence and telematics and virtual reality and data analytics and all of this stuff. And generationally, you know, I was talking with somebody earlier today who's not yet 40 and I'm close to 76 now. And I'm saying I'm part of the boomers. You're part of the millennials. He objected. Finally, I'm not a millennial. I said, no, no, you're of that age block. That doesn't mean that you are, but that age block, like I'm a boomer and I'm not, but I'm part of that block. You're much more amenable to trying new things than my generation. And then you go down to the Gen Xs and Gen Zs. You're not changing something. Get out of the way. I'm not wasting my time here. So that's something else that organizational development, leadership, culture has to acknowledge. One of the things that he said that I found really perceptive, he's driving the purchasing and inventory management and freight logistics and a very complicated part in a major manufacturer. And he's got a new employee who's only been there two or three months. He said, I love the fresh eyes. I love the questions. And I want to make sure I told her, I said, you ask questions. Don't, it doesn't matter if we can't explain it to you. That's our problem, not yours, but keep asking those questions. And I said to him, okay, so let's say you've got 10 employees. How many of that 10 should be with you two years or less? Or should those 10 be here 20 years? And he didn't know how to respond. So I would submit to you that at least one in 10,10% need to be within the last two or three years. And he said, well, how do you manage that? You promote people out of the department. And I go back to when I was at Finning and we had 53 or 54 stores and people would protect their employees because that employee was making the boss's job easier. So I said, wait a second, we're not going to do this. I want everybody who's at a salary level that's promotable. And I published it every month. I said, okay, this is a waiver wire. These folks are available. And the store managers were my worst enemies. What are you doing to me? And it's the same thing with what you're doing, George. This is how we do things. I've been doing this forever. And Henry, yeah, I'll look at that. They're completely different. How do you get those guys to coexist?

That's not easy.

I don't have the answers to the maiden's dreams by any stretch of the imagination. And it's really interesting to me. It might not be to other folks, but I'm a problem solver. I'm a fixer. I'm a typical guy. Women... communicate much more effectively. I'm not asking you to solve my problem. I just want you to listen to my feelings. And I'm a things person, not a feelings person. Although as a teacher, I have to be both, right? So it's these hats that you have to wear. Joel Barker, who brought in the term paradigm back in the 70s and 80s. defined leadership as somebody who took you to a place that you wouldn't have gone by yourself. And Colin Powell defined his leadership by, I'm going over that hill. Who's going to follow me? And he said, if I'm a successful leader, they're all going to follow me. Well, with his job description as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, I want a little bit more information before I follow you over that hill. And it's interesting. Today, I was reading about Jimmy Stewart. The actor, who ended up as a Brigadier General in the Air Force, which I didn't know, started as a pilot privately, joined the Air Force during World War II, and in four years went from private to colonel, and was a squadron leader, a bombing of Germany, and one of the most dangerous functions. Never knew any of that stuff. And one of his children was killed in Vietnam. And he was in the National Guard at the time. He went to Vietnam and flew missions against the Viet Cong, kind of as his way of freeing his head that his son was gone. Again, the vice president says, we get magnificent results. We get a lot of sales. Our sales numbers are always going up. What's your market share? It's going down. You're the beneficiary of a wonderful market. You're not doing any better this month than you did last month.

So the performance review, those discussions with the people, again, that communications once a week. What did I do well at this week? Yeah. We don't give ourselves time to have that checkpoint.

And I think that's why metrics become so powerful. We're all seeking something like that. I had a coach when I was swimming. His name was Gil. And he was always on my butt about working harder, working harder, spending more time, doing more things. I remember an interview with Barry Bird and Magic Johnson. Basketball players, right? Right. And Bird saying, I did 700 shots today. I've had about enough. Then he would think to himself, well, Johnson's probably doing 800. I'm going to stick him to do another 100. And those two guys measured against each other. And they were fierce competitors.

From college all the way through retirement. Yet the men became really good friends. On the basketball court, it's a war. Yeah. Off the basketball court, we're friends. Between the walls of the business, I can be critical of your performance. Outside, I can be your best friend.

That's hard to do. I had an owner that tells my wife, the reason I got your husband around is because he does the hard stuff with the people that I can't do. And I said, what kind of malarkey is that? Just be honest.

Tell people the truth.

yeah. They know

A heck of a lot earlier than you do. They know whether they're doing the job or not. Absolutely. They're not fools. Yeah. Give them credit.

And that's another piece that the owner has problems with, but you don't.

I used to ask people that I worked with three questions. two, three times a year, more frequently if I didn't like the answers. What do I do that you like that I do and you want me to continue? What do I do that you don't like that I do and you want me to stop? What do I do that you don't know why I do it because it really doesn't matter? And it was remarkable. The first time I went, I did this at Finning when I arrived. I'm from Quebec, from French Canada. I'm an import and I'm a boss. There were 50 other guys that could have taken my job, but they hired me. And the people that I'm working with, at the beginning, they weren't sure. And when I started asking those questions, they didn't know what to do with them. What do I do that you like that I do? Well, I don't know. You have to think about that. So in that particular environment, what they did to introduce me, I might have told you this story years ago. We went up the coast to the Sunshine Coast. The company had helicopters, so they took us up by helicopter. There's 50 guys plus guys. And in the morning, we fished salmon fishing. You're out on boats, so you're getting to know people in small groups because you couldn't all go in one boat. And I think we had four or five in a boat, so we had 10 boats or something. So we rotated around. We did this for three days, Bruce. In the afternoon, we met. And we talked about business issues. And in the evening, we ate dinner, we drank, and we told lies. And the second day, it became painfully obvious to me that they didn't want me anywhere near that place. So that night, I said, okay, fine. This is difficult for you guys. You don't want me here. I'm sure you think one of you could have done this job and should have had this job. So I'll make you a deal. You guys come up with something, one thing as a group, and you all have to agree to it, that's going to make us more money or more sales for the department. I'm running the parts business. Did about $150 million. This is 100 years ago. And, oh, geez, you thought I'd given them candy. And I left and let them go. The next day, it's the third day, we're leaving the following morning. And I said, okay, have you got something? They said, yes. Okay. And that was the third night we're drinking and they were talking about it. So they gave me one thing that was going to make more money for the company that they all agreed with. And they thought they had me. Well, think about that. We generate almost 100% of the profit of the corporation. We cover all the expenses in the parts business. And the people that run that business have agreed on something that's going to make it better. who the hell's going to stop me? So I went back, talked to my boss and said, okay, we want to do this. This is what the group decided. And they said, okay, go ahead. We started, we implemented. A couple of weeks later, I call them up and say, okay, fine. You gave me this as a mission. I got it done. I think it was too easy, folks. Do you want to try it again? And yeah, we want to do it again. So they did it again. And I did it again. And I went back the third time. They said, no, no, no, we figured out. You now, you're a devious son of a gun. We're, you know, we're not playing this game anymore. And everything was fine from that point forward. So it's, it's kind of identifying what bugs them. You're coming in. They aren't happy to see you.

Who the heck are you? You need to find that one thing, don't you?

Which is what makes it exciting for you.

And I'm pleased that this is what you're doing, Bruce. I think you are, too. Yes. You just have to watch that you have time away from them sufficient so that you can balance your life, too.

I think we've covered a pretty good piece of land here. And I hope that the audience has appreciated your transition to what you're doing. Have you got any closing shots of wisdom that you'd like to share before we say goodbye?

Oh, great point. And don't skip the steps. Exactly. Bruce, that's wonderful. Thank you so much for your time. And thank you to the audience for participating with us. And I look forward to having another conversation with you in the near future. And to you, the audience, I hope you're back for another candid conversation with us in the near future. Mahalo. Thank you for listening to our podcast. We appreciate your support. Should you have any thoughts or comments? please don't hesitate to contact us at www. learningwithoutscars. com. The time is now. Mahalo.